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Post by caitycat66 on Oct 18, 2009 21:00:44 GMT -5
Why do we all like Carrion so much? Because we feel sympathetic, right? We think he should have gotten Boa in the beginning, rather than Finnegan. Or, if that didn't work, Candy, at the end. But something we (I) never stopped to think about is what would result of that switch around. If Carrion and Boa/Candy were a couple (!), that would mean Finnegan would have been turned down. What I'm getting at is, if things were different, and Carrion was the happy groom and Finnegan was the tortured lost soul, who would we like better? Do we prefer Carrion just because of his pain (that we can relate to, on some level), or do because we honestly enjoy his personality? Are we just empathetic to him because we want to fix/heal him? Just something to muse about during the week.
(Please forgive any spelling mistakes or ramblings, I'm barely conscious.)
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Post by caitycat66 on Oct 18, 2009 21:01:34 GMT -5
I think that made sense.
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worldfantasygirl
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'If silence therefore song" - end poem of Abarat 3[Mo0:24]
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Post by worldfantasygirl on Oct 18, 2009 21:19:50 GMT -5
yes, but I don't think finnegan would have killed boa and he has a bigger chance of getting someone else. I think most people like carrion because of the sympathy, I know I can't help but feel sorry for him but I also like his personality too. I hope that makes sense
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Post by Abaratian on Oct 19, 2009 0:34:49 GMT -5
I'm torn about this... in almost all other situations, I don't think I would change my opinion if the situation had been flipped. For example, in Phantom of the Opera, I will always be routing for Erik, and in Hunchback of Notre Dame I'm always cheering for Quasimodo. Also, in Beauty and the Beast, where the Carrion-like character did get the girl, I didn't pity Gaston and suddenly take his side. However, this situation is difficult...
Christopher Carrion is a dark character, but at the time he courted Boa, he was not yet evil. I think there's some sort of human nature that we want a character like Carrion to find his happy ending more than we would a normal or good character. So even if the situation was flipped, it would not be exactly the same. Finnegan was good, still is good, and Boa would not have changed him. There's something very fantastic and romantic about a man changing for love, and Finnegan getting with Boa does not fulfill this.
Also, Finnegan is normal, and is capable of dating and being loved by other women. Carrion, on the other hand, is an outcast. Most women are be repulsed by him, and the fact that Boa was tolerant of his affection was probably new to him, but also like a dream come true to him. Imagine being alone and hated your entire life, and then one person comes in to make you feel incredible and loved.
So I'd normally say that if the situation was flipped, it would not make as much an impact on us as the current situation does. However...
Analyzing this flipped situation reveals how similar Carrion and Finnegan really are. Both men were transformed by their grief. Both became murderers. Carrion killed Boa (and is trying to take over the world) and Finnegan is trying to wipe out an entire species. On the surface, Finnegan's actions seem far less sinister. But dragons are sentient creatures, and he is seen murdering baby dragons - innocent creatures that have yet to turn out "good" or "evil". Finnegan is seen as this hero, because he's avenging his lost love. Why is Carrion not seen as a hero? He's avenging his lost love, as well. Finnegan took Boa away from Carrion (because I feel wholeheartedly that, had Finnegan not showed up, Boa would have married him - her family was pressuring her to and it meant a lot to the entire archipelago). Carrion took Boa away from Finnegan (by killing her, obviously). And I feel like, had the situation been flipped, Finnegan would have reacted similarly. I do not think he would have killed Boa, but I don't think he would be above killing Carrion out of jealousy and grief.
So maybe, had the situation been flipped, we WOULD be routing for Finnegan. But the situation is as it is, so there's really no way to tell for sure.
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worldfantasygirl
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'If silence therefore song" - end poem of Abarat 3[Mo0:24]
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Post by worldfantasygirl on Oct 19, 2009 16:39:31 GMT -5
wow, that is soo true! ;D
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Post by caitycat66 on Oct 20, 2009 19:31:26 GMT -5
Wow, I didn't think there would be that much to say on the subject. I'd never really thought of both Carrion and Finnegan being murderers, but you're right Abaratian. (Haha, I love Erik too. That reminds me, I just found my copy of Phantom again... I'm gonna go find a tv. )
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inumaru
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Post by inumaru on Oct 21, 2009 18:20:50 GMT -5
Oooh, nice question! And great answers. This really makes you think, doesn't it? Let me think one up, too!
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inumaru
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Post by inumaru on Oct 21, 2009 18:23:05 GMT -5
I think we like Carrion because of his inability to bond with others. He's never really close to anyone and if he is, it's with an alternative motive. For example, Letheo is kept around so Carrion can feel like he can control something, however small it is. Boa and Candy were desired in order for him to be healed. So, what I'm getting at is that he uses people for his own pleasure. Now, we have this self absorbed man with glimmers of hope here in there that he's something more than a manipulator, and us fangirls are drawn to that hope---which make us want to draw that hope out either with Candy or anyone else, as long as we are able to crack his stone shell.
Finnegan already has his shell cracked. He likes people simply because he does. No alterior motive. So, if Carrion and Boa got together (with Boa in the process of 'cracking' Carrion,) it could go either way. Perhaps, if Finnegan regressed and formed a shell, there would be more fangirls willing to cure him of pity, but I feel like he would most likely stay the same. With his same old perfect prince persona. There is a thing such as too much perfection. >_>
So, in short, I think the Carrion fangirls would still like him even if he married Boa...depending if Finnegan goes all angsty or not. Oh gosh...Finnegan angst. T_T Considering his current angst is killing off an entire race, what would happen if he didn't get the girl in the first place? Kill all the people on the Abarat?
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worldfantasygirl
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'If silence therefore song" - end poem of Abarat 3[Mo0:24]
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Post by worldfantasygirl on Oct 22, 2009 16:25:27 GMT -5
the last part of that made me start roflol, seriously, finnegan angst, omg.
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Kaito
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Post by Kaito on Nov 7, 2009 19:53:07 GMT -5
I don't like Finnegan. I don't know why; he just ticks me off. For some reason. Or rather, no reason whatsoever.
I like Carrion because he's an awesome character. He starts off being all "I am stereotypical villain lol" and transforms into an actual, deep, non-stereotypical character. While still keeping his villain-ness.
I don't get fangirling off him, though... I mean, he's a vicious, manipulative bastard. However much I like the character, he himself... well... yeah. (Has switched to thinking with her right brain and can no longer articulate what she's talking about.)
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Post by caitycat66 on Nov 10, 2009 19:21:20 GMT -5
I don't like Finnegan. I don't know why; he just ticks me off. For some reason. Or rather, no reason whatsoever. I like Carrion because he's an awesome character. He starts off being all "I am stereotypical villain lol" and transforms into an actual, deep, non-stereotypical character. While still keeping his villain-ness. I don't get fangirling off him, though... I mean, he's a vicious, manipulative bastard. However much I like the character, he himself... well... yeah. (Has switched to thinking with her right brain and can no longer articulate what she's talking about.) I don't think anyone likes Finnegan. You... don't.. get it? How... How is that possible? He's- he's... There's no word for it. Yes, he's a vicious, manipulative bastard. He's basically broken and unlikeable in every way. But that's why we like him. Um... Have you ever seen what happens to (most) women when you bring a baby into a room? Or a kitten, or puppy? It's kind of like that. Most babies/kittens/puppies aren't going to bloodily destroy you if you make them mad, but it's the same basic principle. To be perfectly honest, I can't really explain it, because it doesn't make sense. It's a little self-destructive, actually. But that's just the way we're programmed. We are fangirls. We are what we are. Don't dis us. Convert instead. That didn't turn out quite the way I meant it. Oh well. (Does that sound intelligent enough? )
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worldfantasygirl
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Post by worldfantasygirl on Nov 11, 2009 0:19:58 GMT -5
I agree, I can't explain my fan girlyness either. Everyone who knows I like him (except other fan girls) think I'm absolutley nuts!(To be honest I like that there isn't too much competition for liking him, I feel more unique that way. Not like all the other teenage girls who flock to the latest cute guys that comes along, just cause he's hot)
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Kaito
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Post by Kaito on Nov 11, 2009 20:21:30 GMT -5
Yah, I tend to fangirl more off the nice people than the cute people Although, in manga, they tend to be one and the same... (Asakura Yoh, Allen Walker, etc...)
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Post by caitycat66 on Nov 12, 2009 20:18:35 GMT -5
Exactly. Ya'll can keep Robert Pattinson and Brad Pitt or whoever, I get an imaginary guy.
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Usagi
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Post by Usagi on Nov 14, 2009 2:13:58 GMT -5
*COUGH You said Robert Patterson have to post this COUGH*
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worldfantasygirl
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Post by worldfantasygirl on Nov 14, 2009 18:43:12 GMT -5
ha, that is sooo funny ;D
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Kaito
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Post by Kaito on Nov 16, 2009 19:10:37 GMT -5
You... don't.. get it? How... How is that possible? He's- he's... There's no word for it. Yes, he's a viscous, manipulative bastard. He's basically broken and unlikeable in every way. But that's why we like him. ...Okay. I understand that, I guess. Not my kind of attitude, but, there you go. -shrug- Robert. Pattinson. Ew. No questions asked, ew. Ditto for whoever played Jacob. I saw a poster with him on it, and had to ask someone who'd actually seen the movie, "Is that a guy or a really ugly girl?" Nothing against Native Americans, hell, in some ways their culture pwns European (and by default American, we're basically ruder Brits), but Twilight just... No. Nonono. Twilight as a whole = Horrible, disgusting rape of European mythology. Usagi: Amen to that. Roflrazzi win.
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Post by RedStockings on Nov 17, 2009 10:59:22 GMT -5
There are some direct comparisons that could made between Edward Cullen and Christopher Carrion, both can't seem to love any other way than totally obsessively. Perhaps that is part of the appeal? To imagine being loved by someone, so much, that they would kill for you? Couldn't live without you? I'm sure CC fangirl-ism considers this. Sure, not exactly a very healthy way to love, and not something you'd go searching for in real life, but it's a 100% true. Not to mention safe if it's only pretend. I wonder whether this is why Carrion is so interesting... I think Carrion has a genuine "excuse" for going over the edge when rejected by Boa, he's been abused all his life and clearly doesn't know any other way to react. Finnegan doesn't have the same excuse, had he been the one jilted and had gone off the rails, it would seem very selfish and stupid. Just like his mass dragon cull. Finnegan = boo!
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worldfantasygirl
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Post by worldfantasygirl on Nov 17, 2009 19:29:18 GMT -5
I agree ;D
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Kaito
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Post by Kaito on Dec 5, 2009 18:01:10 GMT -5
Just like his mass dragon cull. Finnegan = boo! Keep in mind that Abarat has evil (genuinely evil, not just want-to-be-left-alone-and-maybe-eat-some-sheep-now-and-then) dragons, and that Western dragons are traditionally embodiments of evil, anyway. (Demo, Eastern dragons are the polar opposites, but Barker seems to be keeping to Western mythology. Would make for an interesting scene in the new book, though. Finnegan meets benign dragon.) Have you ever seen what happens to (most) women when you bring a baby into a room? Or a kitten, or puppy? It's kind of like that. Most babies/kittens/puppies aren't going to bloodily destroy you if you make them mad, but it's the same basic principle. Yup. Know the symptoms well. Been victim to 'em myself, occasionally. On the other hand, babies/puppies/kittens/baby birds are programmed to trigger a protective/love response from adults. That's why they're considered 'cute'. And fluffy. And helpless. On the other hand, Carrion is none of those things. He's not cute at all. Not fluffy in the slightest (if anything, I'd say slimy). And I think we all know he's not helpless. And that's without the psychopathy. Anyway, discounting Carrion, I don't really like Finnegan either, though he's tolerable. Asked to pick my favorite male character in the series, I'd have to say Malingo, but that's just me. Favorite male character out of everything, though is definitely Fujiwara-no-Sai. (Hell if he's a ghost! I SERIOUSLY want him as my Go sensei. I'd make -dan within weeks.) But now we're talking Go, which is something else altogether.
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